Talk:Pro-Choice on Everything

"Debate hotly contested"

I don't think "hotly contested" is the best summary. What we have is a very vocal minority who is good at getting non-libertarian anti-abortionists to infiltrate LP polls, other polls, and Facebook groups. Some are successful at getting their people on the platform committee or working with people who want to get more conservatives in the party and want to get rid of the plank that keeps them out. And we had Bob Barr and his ilk pushing for cutting the plank down to nothing in 2008.

If you look at how quickly attempts by the platform committee and Aaron Starr from the floor were shot down in 2016 I think you have a better idea of what delegates think. More importantly these two polls from mainstream research organizations give a better idea of what libertarians in general think. Note that two mainstream research organizations have found that more than half and as many as three-quarters of libertarians support a pro-choice position. (I don't believe there is a "drop" in support from 2006 to 2013, just a different - more religious and probably conservative - libertarian sample in the 2013 study.)

• Scott Keeter, Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, and Gregory A. Smith, Search of Ideologues in America, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, April 10, 2006. Quote: "Similarly, 57% of conservatives and 56% of populists think there should be more restrictions on abortion, compared with only 25% of libertarians and just 12% of liberals.
• Daniel Cox, Ph.D., Juhem Navarro-Rivera, Robert P. Jones, Ph.D., In Search of Libertarians in America, Public Religion Research Institute, October 29, 2013. Quote: Nearly 6-in-10 (57%) libertarians oppose making it more difficult for a woman to get an abortion, a proportion identical to the general population.

So I think rather than argue about who is contesting it and why, the history of changes over time, etc., we should strike that "hotly contest" sentence and just write: "The Libertarian Party's 2016 platform "abortion" platform plank reads: “Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.”

Thoughts? LP-1979 (talk) 09:38, 17 October 2017 (CDT)

===But it is a debate Historically it is hotly contested, and this is a historical page. I don't care if other terminology is used, but the fact of the debate - particularly on this phrase which had people really upset earlier this year- is a historical fact. I created the page because of that debate and that people seemed unaware that this is a long-standing slogan. But it is hotly debated. Nearly every convention the plank comes up for or close to up for deletion. This and immigration are both the hottest issues of the party right now- though I am sure the death penalty will be disputed next convention.CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 20:36, 17 October 2017 (CDT)

Just to get into the way to avoid wasting TOO much time on debate, then there needs to be details of the controversy and MORE IMPORTANTLY reliable sourcing. :I find myself immediately thinking of going into details like all the info about the evil intentions of the GOP in adopting the abortion issue and misleading and bullying members into adopting the issue, and how too many of those types have infiltrated the LP over the years. Like how resistance to Ron Paul (1987-88) led to his failure to get rid of the plank and his PROMISE not to promote the issue during his campaign. Like Bob Barr/Wayne Root's B.S. promises to get lots of votes but demands plank gut the right to abortion; at least it still says keep govt out. And all the other anti-abortion named individuals who have come and gone in party when they couldn't get their way. And details about the tiny minority of actual libertarians opposed, compared to the legions of fanatical trolls recruited to opine on a topic, making a big fuss causing controversy. And libertarians raising a big fuss in response. And full details of how delegates shot down getting rid of the abortion plank in 2016. (Must make that video soon for Platform Committee.)

Made above paragraph small to emphasize: Do we really need to get into all that? Sounds like dozens of hours of wrangling over couple hundred words. (Just like an abortion issue in the LP article would be.) I'll just see if I can find a source like one nice little sentence from some place like Reason that notes controversy. ;=) LP-1979 (talk) 11:36, 18 October 2017 (CDT)

I think everyone is mature enough to handle it responsibly. History is history, warts and all. CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 17:03, 19 October 2017 (CDT)