Talk:Libertarian Membership Pledge
Edits to Article
Changes made to remove uncited material about alternative proposals, and to reflect a neutral NPOV description of the various interpretations and views. Added Nolan quote. AndyCraig (talk) 21:32, 1 October 2017 (CDT)
- I found the citation for the alternative proposal in the Internet Archive so that was re-added. Tweaked NPOV as it is not necessarily an issue of "defenders of the Pledge" versus "opponents of the Pledge" but of differing views on interpretation which could be used as opposition to the Pledge, but also could be used just for interpretative purposes. I believe there is a source for the removed material from the first paragraph, and I will try to find it. That was legacy material - don't know who originally wrote that.CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 00:53, 2 October 2017 (CDT)
- Nope, what I thought was the source on that first paragraph was interesting, and I will add it later as someone who supported the Pledge (apparently) strictly as the NAP, but it is only available on the WayBack machine, and this is an often-cited article. It was in an LPWA newsletter. Going to see if we have that original newsletter to scan the article.CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 01:03, 2 October 2017 (CDT)
Requests for material
Does anyone have any articles or source material on whether or not the Pledge was intended to prohibit ALL violence against the state? It seems to me it does, otherwise that would seem to weaken Nolan's purpose.CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 01:03, 2 October 2017 (CDT)
Timothy McVeigh
There are two sources for the false claim that McVeigh identified as a Libertarian.
1. That he may have voted for Harry Browne in 1996. There is no evidence for this claim. It is entirely unsubstantiated and the reference to it was removed from wikipedia 6 years ago.
2. That McVeigh said "I’m a libertarian." He literally did say that, but not in the political context. He was referring to vegetarianism vs eating meat. The context is that, in 2001, PETA tried to have McVeigh put on a vegan diet. PETA told the warden “Mr. McVeigh should not be allowed to take even one more life.” The warden of the prison refused, so PETA appealed directly to McVeigh to have his last meal be vegan. McVeigh wrote a letter back to PETA which said:
- “Truth is, I understand your cause – I’ve seen slaughter houses myself – but I still believe in reasonable taking and eating of game (as an outdoorsman and hunter)…
- “My one main problem with the ‘veg’ movement is this (besides the fact I’m a libertarian): Where do you draw the line and what standard is used to define that line? Those that are in it for the health benefits accept poultry and fish as edible. Where do those opposed to suffering stand? (Ever see a fish struggling out of water?) What about grubs/worms/etc.? (that chick on ‘Survivor 2.’) And finally, plants are alive too: they react to stimuli (including ‘pain’); have circulatory systems, etc.; so how about them? … To me, the answer is as the Indians believed: respect for the life you take to sustain yourself, but come to terms with your place in the ‘food chain’.
Wikipedia removed the reference to McVeigh as a libertarian in 2010, when the context was discovered.
Timothy McVeigh was a registered Republican. If there is going to be any reference to him at all on this site, that reference ought to make clear that there is no evidence that McVeigh had anything to do with libertarianism or the Libertarian Party. AJPEG (talk) 03:53, 10 January 2021 (CST)
- It is not a false claim, he said it in that letter. It makes no difference that he said it in reference to vegetarianism, no one claimed he understood it. And it is small "l" so obviously is not the LP but the national LP responded to that actual claim. CarynAnnHarlos (talk) 05:12, 10 January 2021 (CST) (will submit this dispute to the historical committee for review)
- It is a false claim when it is in the political context, and yes, it makes a huge difference that he was talking about vegetarianism rather than politics. Lots of people thought he was talking about politics, rather than a personal freedom to choose your diet. The only reason that the national LP had to respond to the claim - and the reason it spent many years on wikipedia before being removed - was that people misunderstood his reference. Why would you want to perpetuate that misunderstanding by not making it clear that the national LP was merely (unknowingly) responding to that misunderstanding?
- For years, wikipedia said "McVeigh self-identified as a libertarian in a statement that was reported by MSNBC.com and The Washington Post; and in 1996, while in federal prison, he voted for Libertarian candidate Harry Browne in the United States presidential election, 1996." Both halves of that statement were removed separately, but that is what people read for years. Earlier, wikipedia read "McVeigh was a self described libertarian and an anti-government extremist" and the article carried the category tag "Libertarians". Lots of people were claiming - falsely and for many years - that McVeigh was a libertarian in the political context. There is no legitimate reason to perpetuate that myth. AJPEG (talk) 03:47, 11 January 2021 (CST)
This section of the article has now been modified in several ways, which will hopefully address all of these concerns. JWD3 (talk) 23:18, 16 February 2021 (CST)